Walter: We have listeners that are all over in terms of their own backgrounds, even how long they may have been a Christian. So I actually want to begin with some very basic things. What is sanctification? What do you mean by that when you’re saying that is so central to how we understand your movement, and how does that connect with holiness? Again, some may be familiar with baptism in the Spirit, speaking in tongues, but these are concepts that to others within the streams of evangelicalism or other listeners may be somewhat new. But I think if we’re going to understand Christianity in America and in this series on faith in America, we actually will need to have some kind of working knowledge of these things.
Doug: The holiness side is somewhat reflective of our understanding of two elements: one is Scripture, of course, and the other is the influence of John Wesley. God is holy, the Bible tells us that. This is part of the nature of who God is. God is love; God is holy. And out of Wesley, we think of holiness as a holy love for us.
We view sanctification in two ways. One is a dying to our broken, carnal nature. For instance, in Isaiah 53, I think it’s three times the prophet refers to, “He was wounded for our iniquity.” And our iniquity we view as being that we may be born again, obviously, but we still have what Paul calls the old man, the old fallen nature, that we have to deal with. I recognize there are different views of how that’s dealt with. From our standpoint, generally from a Wesleyan holiness standpoint, there’s a recognition at some point in our walk with Christ — we acknowledge I’ve got this battle going on inside of me — and to come, literally or figuratively, to an altar, to be put on the altar and die. And that’s by faith, by the way.
It doesn’t mean we become morally absolutely perfect or anything of that nature. It just means there’s a conscious awareness of a full surrender to the lordship of Jesus Christ. It’s sort of a Romans 6, coming and being consciously, Paul says, reckoning yourself dead to sin. And then the second part of that is a full surrender of who we are, our talents, our abilities.
Lord, use me. It’s Isaiah’s call: “Here am I. Send me.” And so those two points come together. We view this as something that has a progression to it, and then an instantaneous moment —instantaneous by faith — that I realize I put myself, Lord, on the altar before you, and here I am. That’s a moment in our personal experience. In God’s view, God probably sees the whole thing in one picture, and that’s how we understand salvation as a total reality. But from our perspective, I experience something that’s a transformational moment in my walk with Jesus, and then that continues to progress for the rest of our lives.
2 Corinthians 3:17–18 becomes a reality — we are being transformed from glory to glory. Again, it doesn’t mean we’re perfect. It doesn’t mean that at different stages of life — it's like I’m peeling an onion — things that I dealt with, or sometimes still deal with when I’m younger, I’ve got different things now I’m dealing with. And I’m asking, Lord, sanctify me, purify my heart at this stage of my life. That’s the sanctification side of it.
The Pentecostal side roots into Acts 2 and the teaching of the New Testament and all the Scripture about the work of the Holy Spirit. We view that when a person is born again, the Holy Spirit comes to live inside of you. You can’t say Jesus is Lord, Paul says, except by the Holy Spirit, in 1 Corinthians 12. So we don’t take the view that the Holy Spirit doesn’t live in your life until some other experience. The Holy Spirit leads you to conviction of sin and to the recognition of who Jesus is and confirms our adoption as the children of God.
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